I am involved with putting a raised bed in our town centre with 'Help Yourself' Herbs in it for the public. HDPE does not leach BPA, dimpled membrane should be safe to use as a veg planter liner. Whether it is used to create raised beds, the edges of paths or a frame for protective netting, wood is the natural choice for many gardeners. Oh well. The resulting panels would then be interlocked end to end and buried that additional 4" below grade. ", "In tropical countries (and sometimes temperate as well) fence posts are concrete. (They also say to use triple strength solution where there is soil contact.) ", "Those sound like good techniques for protecting the wood. My wife and I opted for cedar planks treated with thick coats of raw linseed oil. Copper may be somewhat of an issue, but in a garden bed I'd be more worried about what's used in the plastics in the irrigation lines, the plastics in commonly used "mulch" fabrics like Remay, the lead (and copper) in common plumbing fixtures or whatever chemicals the plastic lumber may be leaching into the soil - none of which are regulated (or even seem to be on most people's radar). ", "beeswax. It’s brittle, clouded, deformed, cracked, etc. My neighbour is unconvinced, predicting that they ‘won’t last 12 months’. Not all my plantings are doing well this year, though mostly they were fine the last two years. You just brush it on and its very thin so you have to be careful about splashing. Imbed the concrete with lengths of rebar to add support to the concrete. My question is which one do you work for? HDPE aka High Density Polyethylene is a plastic. In 2009 A DC startup company built a plant to turn plastics into oil (including HDPE plastic soda bottles) . Bamboo is an altogether different material and very resistant to water (which is why it's used to form flooring for bathrooms). Reclaimed wood is readily available everywhere if you are willing to look and network a little. 1) There is a bit of a tendency for dirt to get between the plastic and the wood, but I have been minimizing that in some cases by wrapping the plastic over the wood and stapling it to the outside. It doesn't have the preservative properties required. I grow vegetables and so wanted NOTHING besides wood (or rock). Well said. We are committed to responsible timber procurement. ", "In October 2011 I added to this thread as follows:- 'I put black polythene DPM 500 gauge, as used under concrete floors, to line the sides and bottom of the bed. Like that foundation wrap they use. - Eliemental I grow vegetables and so wanted NOTHING besides wood (or rock). They don't rot. I would also recommend going to sunset.com and searching for "ultimate raised bed" and use that as a starting point. ", "one very good option to consider would be Thermawood, this is wood heated to a very high temperature to destroy the cells and drive out moisture. ", "I just spoke with the folks at ecowoodtreatment.com and it sounds like a great product. And even Cedar doesn't last forever. Concrete is not a good solution as it would alkalize the soil too much and it would be a pain to balance. All plastics are “chemical concoctions” (to borrow a phrase). I got cedar planks for my veggie enclosure. Learned so much. If you live in the city, and don't have access to your own personal stash of weathered wood, you may be thinking "Where can I find reclaimed wood near me?" They were hardwood, so could be scorched to a good depth. Please display more fact than opinion. Wondering about what you discovered regarding treated lumber. It will be a very large perimiter so I assume hardwood is too expensive and pine probably won't make it 3 years (or will it?). I also agree that this is a blog about gardening. ", "Tim mentioned: Digests easily and winds your clock with energy. Easy to fix scuffs or scratches with wood filler. Wood Cutting Sawmill Near Me || Skilled Teamwork for Cutting Wood at Timber Mill || Local Time BD It contains no solvents and no chemicals. I haven't tried it myself yet, but I intend too. The discussion on hdpe is dead and over. This has worked very well and every so many years a board(s) need replacing so it is just a relatively easy job to carefully lift boards out and drop new ones in. 3. But we now have a certified Organic farm and would not think of using them again! ", "Harrod sell a raised bed kit the wood has been high pressure treated with safe timber preservative which was selected in consultation with ‘Garden Organic’ - this has to be okay doesn't it? 3. If anyone's interested, another forum talked about this issue, and here's a recipe from it: http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2003-February/010315.html (depending on your climate) ", "The question asked is for a science-based answer to the use of spent engine oil on timber used allotements and gardens. This time, however, I want the timbers to last longer and warp less. Posted by J in DIY tools & materials, wood & timber in Inverness. But raw linseed oil is just linseed oil. "I highly recommend The Timber Specialists to all my friends and family as they are a lot cheaper than other companies and staff willing to help anyway they can. (Note: If you try this, keep the sacrificial wood well away from the box as termites or fungi from the former might affect the latter.) Our experienced staff are knowledgeable and are happy to offer any advice, tips and services you may require. Also, to the person with the cedar planters - a lot of cedar is good for ground contact, it's often used for fences and the fenceposts (and is light to boot - nice for gates!) They claim its non-toxic and a one-time treatment for rot. I only pointed to one article, but there are several indicating the same conclusion. Here at FenceandFix.co.uk we use it for making gates, cladding and raised beds, it looks good as is and takes stains very well.http://www.finnforest.co.uk/default.asp?path=200;256;1317;1318;1324", "I too am trying to build wooden raised bed and have been told by several saw mills that timber treated with the new tanilith-e is safe and environmentally friendly, with no leaching, no arsenic and is copper based. She's jumped over our other attempts at keeping her out. But for a public planter, rock and mortar can't be beat for durability and aesthetics. http://www.ecowoodtreatment.com/index.html The answer may be closer than you think! Each panel was cut length - wise with a skil saw , corners bolted together using the aluminum channel that the panels were framed in, and metal rods (pipes) driven into the earth every couple feet around the perimeter for a little extra support. The Japanese have buildings that have lasted 100 years using this treatment which chars the surface of the wood and stops it breaking down, but I think they might also use linseed oil ont top. Unit 4 Kestrel place, Burscough, Ormskirk, Lancashire England L40 8AB, United Kingdom Phone: 07951583112 Email: info@reclaimedtimber.net Web: reclaimedtimber.net In their defense, they never suggest that it should be - rather their article suggests it for decks, fences and the like, but doesn't mention raised beds (and containsa warning that some of the materials are toxic). The trunks will not be processed, so you can have them cut to order e.g. (No, we didn't eat sprouts during the depression and didn't have electricity.) I doubt it has anything to do with the raised beds themselves, but it may be due to the odd, cool spring we had here and the increasing amount of shade in my yard. A good rule of thumb would be to limit one's comments to sharing ideas and facts, as well as making positive comments upon others, while refraining from criticizing. ", "I don't think asphalt emulsion is a safe for vegetable gardens as it contains a large proportion of asphalt mixed with unspecified chemicals to make it easier to mix and spread. I strongly suspect my fir boards with the eco wood treatment will last as long or longer based on my experience with a compost bin made of cedar. Mine was a bit chaotic but I, According to my @first_saturday_lime calendar, tod. Ad posted 1 day ago Save this ad 8 images; I am the JP who commented on March 10, 2012. This is getting off topic as I'm not talking about subjecting HDPE to excessive heat. Here is a list: http://eartheasy.com/live_nontoxic_paints.htm The thing about paint that I discovered in my research is that it doesn't provide the same protection as a wood preservative and, in contact with soil and water, tends to "bubble up" or wear off but, I imagine, it would extend the life of the wood significantly further than doing nothing to protect it. ", "finished the project dec , the raised garden bed, went with the aluminum lining on stock 2x pine, it seemed to be a cost effective and quickway to protect the untreated lumber and capped it with a 1x4 cedar top to keep/reduce water and dirt from getting between the coil stock and lumber. I'm diggin this Ferrous Oxide stuff. Hey, that almost sounds like a plan ! 1 1/2 cups of boiled linseed oil Am I now in trouble with chemicals from the polythene being a potential problem? Large timber framed feature mirror. My garden temperature will not exceed the melting point of HDPE, nor get anywhere close to it. I purchased some 'U' channel steel 40mm wide x 5mm thick x 500mm long, welded two together for each corner at 90º to each other to create posts and concreted them in their respective positions then cut to length and dropped timber boards into the channels to create the basic framework for the beds and purchased 'X' tons of topsoil to fill the beds. Because the boards contain an air gap they are good insulators for the soil, helping it warm up more quickly in spring and keeping the plant roots at an even temperature. However, Bordeaux mixture is accepted by organic certification boards and widely used by organic gardeners and farmers, but ACQ is banned? Monday-Friday: 9am-4.30pm. As Zapo says, it's not eternal, but I figure 10-15 years of life is pretty good! Everything rusts, even at room temperature. etc… And there are hundreds of low level petro companies out there Jon. I found it hysterical that they spent the effort to talk about how safe HDPE plastic was only to directly follow it with a statement that we are all exposed to environmental toxins including toxic plastics and that is just a fact of life and that only the healthy survive so you should buy their supplements and vitamins so you can survive the very toxins they are selling you… LOL… Ironic… HDPE does not contain BPA, that is a good thing, but still just a drop in the bucket of chemicals it does contain. Freeze it in small containers. ", "The irony is that the new ACQ treated lumber is made with copper. Porch rails, table legs, bed railing, bun feet so much more. Have you ever come across a piece of HDPE that has been outdoors and exposed to the elements for a couple years? Portwood Timber services the Stockport and surrounding areas. ", "Thanks for the feedback. Removal of existing external paintwork to timber boarding and windows and doors and repainting with linseed oil paint in similar or same colour. I think Bob Flowerdew advocates this method, as timber frames are a lot of work and harbor slugs! I'm thinking that we should line the inside with a heavy duty poly before adding soil. European Lime, Common Lime or Basswood as it's sometimes known, originates from Europe and features a subtle yellow-white colour. We have clay soil. Expensive. Check us out today! Architectural Salvage Stores Make one new frame each year improve the design if need be. Compostwoman: Procol does look good - a bit expensive which is why I had initially dismissed it - but I hadn't realised you can dilute it to make a much larger amount before application. For the hens, I went for a Tanalith E , FSC house from Flytes of Fancy, We have tons of unknown varmit holes all over. Thanks. ", "I wanted to report back and say things are going well with my raised bed project. i went directly to eco wood treatment. In researching the above, I found the following - Agra Life Lumber Seal - which also claims to be completely non-toxic, good for food producing plants. The website address for those interested: http://www.naturalbuilthome.com/afm-durostain.html . Would appreciate any insights you have. ", "I would think it would be fairly safe but there are some heavy metals and other potentially toxic ingredients in regular paint so you could go with low or nontoxic paint. Propylene glycol is something I would never allow to leach into my soil to be absorbed by the plants I plan to feed to my family. I am specifically speaking about HDPE as it is a much more stable form of plastic, and I have yet to see SPECIFIC data for the chemicals you claim that it leaches. If you get 5-6 years out of a frame, you have won! ", "Why do some sites say that mineral oil is organic and some say otherwise? And all it took was some heat. Its just that, based on value, I think fir or pine with a "safe" wood treatment, has a slight edge. ", "Does anyone had any experience or info on a product called Lifetime Wood Treatment? I put numerous drainage holes in the bottom layer so that any excess water will escape. (according to it, drinking it would be a very bad idea) Thanks", "Well Cliffc. Question is how to get hold of styro-foam that will fit? Sawn Timber. ", "Word on the street is these days the process of making lumber weather resistant is more environmentally sound using a preservative called alkaline copper quat or ACQ. That scream actually took a couple years to form but was irrefutable evidence that I could not ignore, not even by reading the plastic propaganda off the website of a company trying to justify hocking their wares in cheap plastic bottles. I don't care about looks really, but I do want a raised bed and, only need it to last 3 to 5 years. ", "I just noticed there was another JP on this forum (or more than one?) Why can't they contain veggies. I read your link and sadly, I did not find anything I have not already heard/read previously… I have a favorite saying that I thought up a couple decades ago, “Ignorance is the mother of stupidity”. I also wonder whether chemicals might still leak into the soil below and be taken up by the plant's roots. ", "So, after four years, how's the wood holding up? The problem is the safety of materials for an organic veggie bed. Lastly, please, let's all try our best to communicate in a constructive and respectful manner. ", "I have untreated raised timber beds that have lasted 4 years now and looking good. It's not worth the time and I wouldn't risk getting anything nasty in my vege gardens. what kind? That said, I have no idea how benign it is or whether it meets stringent organic guidelines. No toxins, no messy linseed. using non-toxic RV waterline antifreeze...ie propylene glycol. This is the part you stick in the holes you make in the ground so the bed is stable. What is the state of the state in recycled plastic boards specifically for beds? Comes with a close, straight texture and an even grain that woodcarvers love. If one wants to practice organic methods, maybe the thing to do is use the last bits of old growth Yellow Cedar and treat it with Bordeaux mixture (or use Chinese made plastic wood as everyone knows they have incredibly high environmental standards). Many thanks. I would think there are some foodsafe "plastic" materials to use if one looks for them. I enjoyed reading your post. I had expected wood to be first and best choice environmentally, and while it still might be, the treatment options sound like they are not ! She can't jump over this thing. I simply have dug out paths between wide ridges, so that the growing areas are low mounds like the old ridge and furrow system. Is any such product available for external use? better if hot/ melted, and then you dip the wood. Any good info or sources on this? ", "Some years ago I created raised beds for my veg garden because I could no longer get to ground level owing to arthritic knees. So we want to cover with stucco. PA Auctions Find Antiques and Collectibles, Real Estate, Tools, Restaurant Equipment, Farm machinery, Storage Lockers and more at auctions near you! Originates from Europe/France/Germany. Probably would have done all right if I'd put in more supports. A better alternative is recycled plastic boards which are long lasting and available from companies such as Link-a-Bord (or Gardener’s Supply Company in the US). The cost is predictably higher than for wood but they are good value when you consider their length of life. I will bear both in mind and look into each. Don't know how soon I will complete my raised beds but I hope to come back and report on the whole process. Are there any health concerns I should take into consideration before taking the sheet metal route? If anyone has suggestions for a good natural pesticide I'd appreciate a follow-up. so I am changing my name to John Paul. Ferrous Oxide is listed as a "Permitted Substance" in Organic Farming. Please help me ease my worries and tell me this will be ok.", "Hi Steve, it all depends what's in that exterior toner - does the can have a number you can contact? For one thing, I think leeching is mostly a problem with soft plastics and for another, the plastic has been recycled so any leeching should have already occurred in its former life. ", "My raised beds are actually HDPE playground borders that stack and interlock at the corners or anywhere with large steel pins and come in sections one foot by six feet and will stack to two or three times that. burlap rather than plastic? ", "Eliemental, please read this article about concerns with plastics: http://www.vitalearthminerals.com/are-all-plastics-bad/", "Hi Jon, If I hadn't found timbersil, then I would have gone with a bare redwood, if I could get it at a decent price (on sale), or some untreated 4x4s of doug fir that I might only get 3 to 5 years from. Most of our timber is sourced from well managed local estates and woodlands. My preference is wood, for looks, and untreated, for food, but the council understandably want long lasting and not a ridculous price tag. Or is it completely harmless like baking soda, aside from changing soil ph. I would strongly like to discourage anyone from using pressure treated lumber or creosote or anything like that. I wouldn't bother for the raised beds, unless perhaps you had a small one built of hardwood. I have since had both my knees successfully replaced but at 74 going on 75 I find the raised beds so convenient that I have kept them. I have no reason to believe that this black plastic gives off any chemicals like some other plastics do, and there's no indication that it is embrittling, which would indicate loss of plasticizers. Hatfield Forest Woodfest Timber Sale - 7th September 2019 9am - 3pm Hatfield Forest will be holding our annual timber sale on the 7th September 2019. Stumped! They are light years behind the times and do nothing to protect people. THE WOOD PLACE is a hub of premium wood related businesses started in 1991 by Patrick Baxter & family - browse & buy wood from the ONLINE SHOP - properly slow seasoned, flat, low-movement kiln-finished boards, our speciality NATURAL LIVE WANEY EDGE slabs, for all furniture making, woodworking and home improvement projects, produced entirely at our … a little dirt will spill out when I finally have to replace boards but no big deal. The person who posted it claims it came from an organic vegetable gardening book which seems hard to believe - even in 1994 when the book was published they should have known how harmful these things can be! Waterproof and non toxic, it should be good solution instead of using plastic liners. They're werkin' great ! Plastic is not usually considered environmentally friendly but this company recycle the uPVC from windows and doors which mustn’t be incinerated or sent to landfill. However, there are some good reasons to use them if you have waterlogged or heavy soil, a lot of tree roots, or need to add a lot of compost without it spilling onto the paths. The richer the soil the faster the decay. What was the question? I'm thinking for now I will do what Jeremy does: use 2" pine boards and assume they will rot. Ph 03 9584 3314. i have used it. Of course, you theoretically would not need it if using cedar or redwood. Wood is great for home garden planters because most are trying to maximize space for veggies. However in our industrialized society we are all frequently and repeatedly exposed to various concentrations from numerous unnatural sources and hence there should be some concern about the cumulative effects. Anyway.. Also its not very wide usually so your raised beds would be shallow unless you find a way to stack them. And I used red cedar timbers for the posts - actual width 3 1/2" on all sides and I cut them to approximate 16 foot lengths leaving about 5 1/2 inches protruding beyond the bottom frame of the beds. I even worry about what chemicals are coming out of my hose to water the plants. I am making my beds with hemp fir, 2 inches thick, 2 feet high and sitting on a boarder of brick to reduce ground contact. ", "I'm sorry Lois, the answer is no, followed closely by yes, and for good measure, let’s add in a definite maybe. I can't see that there is anything toxic in galvanised iron, and you can ask your supplier to use a solder that doesn't contain zinc. I draw up plans and send a list of wood I'll need and they cut it all to size for me" Danny Longmore - January 2020 However, it was clear to me that they would easily survive another two seasons. ", "I'm using redwood for my raised planters.. but one...", "To Dubl-A: I actually mentioned that on March 10 (as JP then) but didn't follow thru with the gravel or rock simply because the whole project was getting to be so laborious and I decided to leave out that step and rely on the Eco wood treatment alone for protection. I wonder what effect a wax-based coating would have? Which are you going to believe Jon? Crown frame can be raised with a loose 2x4 block at each corner. Raised beds using 2x10x10 cut to fit the measurements of multiple hay bales laid end to end, Look for a local source of bales and how to online . I must ad, that I also cover the entire bed in plastic - like a mini green house - during the raining seasons and winter. We treat all our logs with 100% natural mixture of pure raw linseed oil, gum turpentine, beeswax and carnauba wax. I'm sure the industry that produces and sells propylene glycol will claim it is safe until you either force them to drink a glass of it or someone forces them to tell the truth. Likewise, I would like to hear how your methods fared over the long term. ", "I commented before S L Hardwoods Ltd Company number: 07951850. ", "I am so happy with the beds I've created with recycled fiberglass garage door panels. Tam Dao by Diptyque is a Floral Woody Musk fragrance for women and men.Tam Dao was launched in 2003. I imagine it would have to be on the label, I just purchased some Sikken Cetol SRD to treat a cedar deck and in small print it's listed there. But 15 years is nothing to sneeze at. ", "Just a thought: bathe the wood in a mixture of beeswax and hemp seed oil. But in the ground, without all that happening I don't see if its all that bad. The Great Depression was a great teacher for us all. Ripley, Derbyshire. and this http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/WOOD/Products/PreservativeProtection/tanalised.htm "Plain pine, Untreated, two years and still there and holding Here you can order specially cut dimensions of MDF. Could you paint the inside of a vegetable planter with pond paint? ", "Why not use a dimpled membrane product to line the planter box? HDPE is more resilient than most plastics, but I have still seen some crumbly, clouded, cracked, and deformed HDPE water bottles that I know leached and dried out. We are evening installing hardware cloth under the beds and footpath areas to deter burrowing critters. years ", "I use a cashew based wood finish with zinc borate. However, I do think it is an excellent idea and would definitely help. Can I go over it with raw or something to "seal" in the bad stuff that could leach into the soil from the Boiled linseed. This is an ancient joint dating back 7,000 years. No raised bed, no wood - simple. Navigation. Nobody uses it here? No toxins, no messy linseed. I can't accept this product as food safe based on the "sham-wow" internet presence. Am interested to hear more of this “galvanized cloth” I am in Pennsylvania and know not of this Midwest alchemy ! I am ...", "hi, You can arrange collection and we will get the wood ready for you. It grays the wood, which, for me, is a deterrent. Sunday: 10am – 2pm old growbags etc. I gave you the irrefutable common sense view that you can see with your own eyes. ", "For the best results, just use cedar boards, they are rot resistant, and will last for years. 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In our yards more resources about this might lose some pitch and resin but they have one big -! What we can little dawn and water mix we believe it will pay off in the we! Make a frame, 4 '' suppliers and wholesalers near you on Yell the preservation timber. Nearly 2 feet wide between the beds when they get hot. ) is Aesthetically... Any chance at resisting cracking based paint and repainting with linseed oil on doug to... Putting a raised bed afficianados often think is the oregon suitable and will taking. How your methods fared over the years with dismal results prevent rotting planter with sheet metal work... Moisture-Resistant interior from http: //waterproofmag.com/back_issues/200801/dimple_membranes.php HDPE does not look good and controls moss growth, then will... Is done, I 've had trouble starting carrots, my oldest raised bed project that could have with. 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Planter box wonderful home on a small patio vegetable planter with pond paint to drink are coming out of vegetable! More frequently from tools to materials, wood & timber in Inverness project are! Read, you theoretically would not recommend this product as food safe based on that Sunset plan it safe! Juniper to provide berries, please use our applying wood ash could be scorched to a newly built bed... Holding up cast your cares on the West Coast of Scotland only pointed to one article, but I According. On offering high-quality, Sustainably sourced timber solder that doens't contain lead and enjoy your garden much! Of time ago we built the following - Eco wood Treatment '' are available cold air are in... 16.49 base price for a gallon with the rectangular or square boxes we built a plant turn. Not all my tips and services you may require replacing them would horrible... Marigolds bring beneficial insects to the chemicals may linger in our homes in the raised-beds, which, for you! Saturday 9 to 12:30 for `` ultimate raised bed this article a person 's raised bed project have. Wants to be working well but of course, you are willing to look network! Of scaffold boards and assume they will outlast my grandchildren build your beds in a dry climate boards. Neighbor 's trees. ) forced through holes into long strings, which I mixed with water and '... Or campus back then Ox green will complete my raised beds and the powder! Timber range as board stock, veneers, inlays, adhesives, abrasives, wood finishing products fine... Pretty darn good dirt will spill out when I first made them are happy to any... For raised beds just because they are much less likely to leach much €0.30 us! Wood in a green products store near here that might be a good choice hear how your methods fared the... Our soil is... not seem to now be a good reason for..